“Julie On Line”: about filmmaking and healing in friendship

Conversation with Mia Ma

Interview conducted by Lesia Pagulich

Julie On Line addresses very difficult and sensitive questions related to living with schizophrenia, trauma, child abuse and injustice. At the same time, the film is imbued with an incredible sense of mutual care between you and Julie, as well as the trust that made this film possible in its sincere moments and the instances of extreme vulnerability that Julie shows to the camera and you. You tell the audience about your friendship with Julie, which is evident when you check in on her, in your voicemail correspondence, from how Julie looks into the camera, and tells her story, and also in your fear for Julie’s wellbeing and your intention to make this film as a shared project. As you say in the film, “Julie has been my friend for 20 years now. She hears voices. 5 years ago, I was afraid I might lose her. Afraid she might die of overmedication, too much smoking and loneliness. I thought a common project would do us both good. So I took a camera.”

Could you please talk about your experience, and perhaps your shared experience with Julie, in making this film? How did the process and the film itself contribute to healing for both of you?

Two years after the film was finished, Julie and I can truly say that it has had a real impact on our lives. The making of the movie was an experience. When I started filming her, I was driven by several exigencies and desires: including the desire to anchor our relationship to a shared project, and hence to the future, at a time when Julie was feeling very bad and when it was difficult for me to maintain our relationship. I wanted to keep her alive through the eye of my camera, I wanted to shoot her as an actress, and to allow as many people as possible to get to know the extraordinary person she is. I wanted her to tell her story one way or the other. At the start of shooting, the movie took the form of a diary: every week, I went to Julie’s house with my camera, and filmed our conversations as they happened, without intervening too much. I was filming non-stop. Our talks had a healing effect on Julie. At that time, I did not know if this would become a movie. I had no producer, no funding. This lengthy period enabled us to be flexible, to assess her desires, her fears, her limits. It also gave us the opportunity to structure the storytelling chronologically, with a transformation and a reconstruction. Today Julie says that the movie helped her to repair herself. When she sees herself on the big screen, she finds herself beautiful. This is a very precious reward for me as a director. When she comes with me on the road to present the film, she takes the microphone and speaks about themes important to her in the movie: the value of the expertise of the patient on his or her own illness, for example, or child abuse. As far as I am concerned, this movie led me to listen unconditionally to Julie for 6 years, and this supportive listening and care were key to her resilience. Of course, the movie also reinforced and nourished our friendship, which is even more vital to me today.

In relation to the previous question. How do you envisage your role as both a friend and a film director in making the film? Has this vision changed during or after the film?   

Our friendship enabled the making of the movie. It made it possible. As I already said, I first felt the need to make this movie because I was worried for Julie. Julie would have never committed to such a film without the complete trust we have in each other, which we have built up over the years. Being a close friend also helped me to intuit  what she wanted or did not want to do in the movie. As an example, when I started shooting her, I had a strong intuition that Julie wanted to talk about her story, but she never expressed this willingness clearly. Being friends was also very helpful because we could tell each other everything, even our doubts about what we were doing. 

And did you have to strike a balance between friendship and the filming process?

Yes, the balance between friend and film director was not easy to maintain, as the lines were always blurred. What helped me as a director was when the producer, and even more so the editor, joined the project as a fresh pair of eyes. The editor was key to shaping the material into a self-contained movie rather than an exercise between friends. During the editing, I often worried about how Julie would see one scene or another. And one day the editor asked me, “Do we really need to make a film that will please Julie?” This question from the editor struck me hard. My answer was: “You’re right! We don’t need to please Julie, but I’m convinced that as long as we remain guided by narrative and cinematographic priorities, Julie will be with us.” On the other hand, for me to complete the movie, it was essential to accept that friendship was at its core.

What challenges or perhaps ethical questions or dilemmas arose for you in the process? In particular, what dilemmas did you face when talking about child abuse, trauma and related memories? How did you answer for yourself the question of how to address violence in a way that assists healing? The silence and injustice surrounding child abuse become obvious in the film, as does the need to sometimes forget in order to move forward, as Julie puts it. How do you think the film strikes a balance between such, at times contradictory, needs and exigencies, such as breaking silences, seeking justice, and fostering healing?

The flow of the movie looks like the 5-year process we undertook to make it. Julie’s traumas peaked three quarters of the way through the movie, which is exactly how it happened during the shooting. At the start of the movie, I didn’t necessarily intend to talk about the abuse she and her brother suffered in childhood. Primarily, because Julie was not feeling well when we started the movie. The question of whether to talk about it came very late when Julie was feeling better and when we took the time to discuss her willingness to have these moments of her life be part of the movie. Time was our best ally, because we could make sure she was ready to talk and think about it. From the very beginning, I was very aware of my responsibility in filming Julie and the potential consequences of putting words to her situation and her past. I always knew I was taking a risk, but I trusted her when she said she was able to talk about those things. She knew that I had been here before and I would be here during and after the film. Ethical considerations were always prominent in my mind. I thought the way we told the story would protect her from third party voyeurism. Finally, it was Julie who chose what to disclose and how to say it.

Julie talks about her daily struggle of living with hearing voices, the impossibility of experiencing silence, and finding a way to hear sounds other than voices. She also talks about the struggle of daily routine, like taking a shower and having breakfast, under the influence of medication. At some point, she mentions that “I decided that if  I was going to suffer with the meds, I’d rather suffer without them.” Julie reveals how she took a risk in reducing her medication, finding some peace with the voices, feeling lost, but also finding a way not to “miss out on her life”, as she puts it. What was important for you and Julie to show about living with schizophrenia and what it means to heal? What was crucial for you and Julie in this process of storytelling? 

I did not want to film schizophrenia; I wanted to film Julie. And Julie always had an interesting take on her illness, given her expertise after living with it for 20 years. Since she became ill, she has been learning how to be her own chemist. On Julie’s side, I think it was important for her to talk about her experience of being ill. We did not want to make a movie that comes out against medication. Julie does mention in the movie that she is still on  some medication, and says that she is taking a risk by discontinuing the rest. But the choice is hers. She reached a point in her life when the effects of so many drugs were leaving her in a state worse than the effects of her illness. 

The film also shows the mutual care between Julie and her family members and the importance of support from family and friends. Could you please tell us how you see the role of care in the film? 

Care  is at the heart of the film: listening, reliable and supportive attention, patience. Life taught Julie and her brothers how important it is to look after each other. I also know that I was able to be present at this moment of Julie’s life because other people had supported her before. Over time, care is the collective mission of friends and family.